"We need to revisit internal communications from Boeing employees that pointed out Max jets were "designed by clowns who in turn are supervised by monkeys."
Seattle as a society has been having severe issues over the past couple of years. Neil Howe says we are in the 4th Turning. It talks about upheaval in society. That has certainly been true in the Seattle area. With the drugs, the disrespect of property, the lawlessness in general, and the lack of responsibility, it is a wonder anything of quality gets done at Boeing.
It's the second largest employer in Washington state after Amazon. I've been following the Max story for several years. I don't think the problems with that aircraft were resolved so much as buried. Could we be entering an age of accountability? One can only hope...
Yeah, I was thinking either incompetent designers or sloppy craftsmen. Inexcusable, and the industry would have tolerated neither not long ago. Saboteurs could take advantage of either flaw or simply initiate them for the same result. No matter, we’re in a downward spiral. No pun intended.
Having had a career in manufacturing quality and test engineering, I would look at a root cause of workers under the influence and supervisors cutting corners on the test specs. Secondarily, I would look at supervisors under the influence. My state has a huge Boeing facility, and Boeing is moving more manufacturing here. I must point out that there were problems during startup: poor training and some company cultural issues may have been root causes. Near as I can tell, that's been straightened out. The point should be obvious: society's ethics and legalized, mind altering drugs have consequences, not necessarily to those whose heads are elsewhere.
I did have a similar thought regarding the seats closest to this being empty. This reminds me of an odd thing which happened on my most recent Max flight just three weeks ago (San Fran-Las Vegas). I was given a window seat and a woman with a lap infant and a three year old were seated next to me. The entire row of three seats directly behind me were unoccupied. The mother sensibly requested the three seats behind us for herself and her two children. The flight attendant told her that she could not move until after the flight was at cruising altitude and the seat belt sign had been turned off. It was a short flight and the three year old girl in the middle seat seemed to like me, so mom never moved to the empty row behind me. I've travelled with my kids when they were very young and as lap infants and I understand the stress of just trying to keep them from crying, so I was probably a more sympathetic passenger than most to be stuck next to two babies. But the seating assignment of the four of us being put in three seats while the entire row behind us was empty was odd, to say the least. It was also an Alaska airlines flight. Now I'm super curious about checking the ticket to see the seat assignment and map of the plane. It could have been the SAME ONE!
This is an extra emergency doorway that is used by discount carriers, like Ryanair, that maximize the seat count. Most carriers, including Alaska, order the aircraft without that door.
But the door-hole is already there in the fuselage. So in these aircraft, Boeing installs a non-functional “plug” instead of an actual door, and the interior is finished accordingly. To people in the plane, this would have *looked* like just a regular window. Until …
Ideally the news organization gets everything right, right away, but I can see how that would be confusing initially.
In the photo we can see the window seat is damaged, but apparently still there. Nevertheless, I think this would have been a likely fatality if that seat had been occupied.
This is a huge deal, and not just for air safety and travel convenience. A problem like this doesn’t simply slip past Boeing and the FAA. Working on my conspiracy theorist badge, I wonder what kind of risk-reduction protocols were in place for this model. Like, don’t fly over 16,000 feet and don’t seat passengers in that row? Other than that, enjoy your safe and effective flight, and would you like peanuts or a parachute?
I just happen to be a recently retired aircraft mechanic and you, Sir, are correct. That is, indeed, the whole door. It probably had a small window in it to allow the flight attendant to look out before opening it (on the ground) which would be the only ‘window’ part of the missing component. Whoever described this as a blown out window seems to have no clue about the difference between doors and windows in aircraft (and probably in any other structures).
All this being said, in my aviation career the most common causes of “sudden depressurizations” are door failures of one kind or another but these don’t often involve the departure of the entire component thanks be to the deity of your choice. Another good reason to keep your seat belt on. Just ask Goldfinger.
I don’t believe I attributed any cause in my reply. If the past is any indicator then it is too early to state design, construction or improper maintenance as leading up to the incident or some combination of all three.
Seattle as a society has been having severe issues over the past couple of years. Neil Howe says we are in the 4th Turning. It talks about upheaval in society. That has certainly been true in the Seattle area. With the drugs, the disrespect of property, the lawlessness in general, and the lack of responsibility, it is a wonder anything of quality gets done at Boeing.
It's the second largest employer in Washington state after Amazon. I've been following the Max story for several years. I don't think the problems with that aircraft were resolved so much as buried. Could we be entering an age of accountability? One can only hope...
Yeah, I was thinking either incompetent designers or sloppy craftsmen. Inexcusable, and the industry would have tolerated neither not long ago. Saboteurs could take advantage of either flaw or simply initiate them for the same result. No matter, we’re in a downward spiral. No pun intended.
Having had a career in manufacturing quality and test engineering, I would look at a root cause of workers under the influence and supervisors cutting corners on the test specs. Secondarily, I would look at supervisors under the influence. My state has a huge Boeing facility, and Boeing is moving more manufacturing here. I must point out that there were problems during startup: poor training and some company cultural issues may have been root causes. Near as I can tell, that's been straightened out. The point should be obvious: society's ethics and legalized, mind altering drugs have consequences, not necessarily to those whose heads are elsewhere.
Whoa! I wonder if the people assigning seats on this flight and on this aircraft knew of this problem and those seats were EMPTY on purpose.
Wow. What a risk flying is now.
I did have a similar thought regarding the seats closest to this being empty. This reminds me of an odd thing which happened on my most recent Max flight just three weeks ago (San Fran-Las Vegas). I was given a window seat and a woman with a lap infant and a three year old were seated next to me. The entire row of three seats directly behind me were unoccupied. The mother sensibly requested the three seats behind us for herself and her two children. The flight attendant told her that she could not move until after the flight was at cruising altitude and the seat belt sign had been turned off. It was a short flight and the three year old girl in the middle seat seemed to like me, so mom never moved to the empty row behind me. I've travelled with my kids when they were very young and as lap infants and I understand the stress of just trying to keep them from crying, so I was probably a more sympathetic passenger than most to be stuck next to two babies. But the seating assignment of the four of us being put in three seats while the entire row behind us was empty was odd, to say the least. It was also an Alaska airlines flight. Now I'm super curious about checking the ticket to see the seat assignment and map of the plane. It could have been the SAME ONE!
Somewhere a village has an airplane door...
You do have to wonder what happened to that...
Portland KPTV old friends that’s close.
That would be absolutely horrifying mid flight
Never see those cell phones again.
Gee flying adds another adventurous concern
Dead dying pilots, now doors fly off.
Ok next time I fly No doors close.
Someone has some serious things to correct at Boeing. Lucky 🍀 no one got pulled out!!!
By the Grace of God we all breathe and go
Flying is super time saving. Cant drive on water yet!
Thats why there are those things called boats.
Yes I like Boats.
Ice bergs not allowed
Looks like a door blew out?
Maybe one of those emergency exit doors.
I cannot fathom why the Post article referred to this as a window blowing out. On first glance it looks like an entire door panel to me too!
Lazy/liars it’s probably 50/50.
It’s a little complicated.
This is an extra emergency doorway that is used by discount carriers, like Ryanair, that maximize the seat count. Most carriers, including Alaska, order the aircraft without that door.
But the door-hole is already there in the fuselage. So in these aircraft, Boeing installs a non-functional “plug” instead of an actual door, and the interior is finished accordingly. To people in the plane, this would have *looked* like just a regular window. Until …
Ideally the news organization gets everything right, right away, but I can see how that would be confusing initially.
In the photo we can see the window seat is damaged, but apparently still there. Nevertheless, I think this would have been a likely fatality if that seat had been occupied.
Wow, really bad.
This is a huge deal, and not just for air safety and travel convenience. A problem like this doesn’t simply slip past Boeing and the FAA. Working on my conspiracy theorist badge, I wonder what kind of risk-reduction protocols were in place for this model. Like, don’t fly over 16,000 feet and don’t seat passengers in that row? Other than that, enjoy your safe and effective flight, and would you like peanuts or a parachute?
I just happen to be a recently retired aircraft mechanic and you, Sir, are correct. That is, indeed, the whole door. It probably had a small window in it to allow the flight attendant to look out before opening it (on the ground) which would be the only ‘window’ part of the missing component. Whoever described this as a blown out window seems to have no clue about the difference between doors and windows in aircraft (and probably in any other structures).
All this being said, in my aviation career the most common causes of “sudden depressurizations” are door failures of one kind or another but these don’t often involve the departure of the entire component thanks be to the deity of your choice. Another good reason to keep your seat belt on. Just ask Goldfinger.
The Airplane movies were apparently quite predictive, pedophiles and all.
I was on this same exact airplane 3 weeks ago. I just tracked it on FlightAware
You mean the same model, or that specific ship?
That exact same airplane
(☉_☉)
😱
Thank you for reporting this.
You're welcome! SAMO's comment has me thinking this rabbit hole might go personally deep with me. I might have been on that plane three weeks ago!
At least it wasn’t a repeat of Aloha Flight 243 in 1988.
Btw welcome to Las Vegas Lady Sukwan.
But 243 was the result of poor maintenance, not manufacture.
I don’t believe I attributed any cause in my reply. If the past is any indicator then it is too early to state design, construction or improper maintenance as leading up to the incident or some combination of all three.
In honor of Amy being in Las Vegas, I'll put my money on the manufacture
Yikes!
https://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingdotcom/principles/diversity-and-inclusion/assets/pdf/Boeing_GEDI_Report_Executive_Summary_FINAL.pdf
Death is a small price to pay for a Culture of Inclusion.
Ralph Nader has been raising the alarm about these planes for years, his niece died when one of them crashed some time ago.
https://extra.ie/2020/02/19/business/boeing-737-max-debris-fuel-tanks#:~:text=Boeing%20is%20inspecting%20more%20than,crashes%20in%20Indoneisa%20and%20Ethiopia
I always book / ask for a window seat 😱 I’m going to choose an aisle seat in future, complete with parachute and grappling hooks, just in case…