Steve Kirsch has been putting out these challenges for months to debate people who don’t think the Covid vaccines are causing injury and deaths. It looks like he has a taker! Ron Unz over at the Unz Review has an alternative explanation. In his article “
Jan 11, 2023·edited Jan 11, 2023Liked by Amy Sukwan
While I am open to Unz's hypothesis about obesity+COVID and think there may be some truth to it, I also see a few "holes" in it, and it certainly doesn't disprove that the mRNA vaccines are killing people. For one thing, Unz has limited his analysis to "working-age mortality", and the evidence suggests that this would miss most vaccine deaths. Why? Because contrary to popular belief, most evidence suggests that the majority of the people killed by the vaccine are actually OLDER people.
First of all, the excess vaccine deaths in the Pfizer and Moderna "gold standard" randomized clinical trials (the highest quality evidence that exists, period) were confined to the OLDER age groups. The younger age groups had no excess deaths in the trials (of course they exist, just much more rare than in older). In the older age groups, the two clinical trials combined had a total of 21 deaths in the vaccine groups versus 16 deaths in the placebo groups.
Among the older age group (>55) in the Pfizer clinical trial, there were 12 deaths in the vaccine group versus 10 deaths in the placebo group. Consistent trend but 20% increase here- if they divided at age 65 like Moderna maybe the increase would be larger, who knows. https://www.fda.gov/media/152256/download - see page 57, BOTTOM of Table 25
Finally, in VAERS, over 70% of unexpected post-vaccine deaths with known ages were in people aged >65 (and about 90% with known ages were in people over age 50). https://openvaers.com/covid-data/mortality
Anecdotally, all 3 people I know who died unexpectedly a few months after vaccination were in the 60-80 age range, and a fourth in his early 80s (healthy) almost died of a sudden cardiovascular event. NONE of them were obese or even overweight, and only one had had COVID (mild case pre-vax).
Hi Amy, this is the first I've heard of you. I came over from the link you posted on Steve Kirsch's substack. I've just read the comments here and I'm so sorry to learn of the predicament your family is in.
You ask "Does anyone else want to take on this guy?" Sorry, I'm not clear whether you yourself have been trying to take him on. I haven't seen you over on his site at https://www.unz.com/, but that may be because you're there under a pseudonym. Also, there are so many commenters there that I do not take the time to pay much attention to everyone. Anyway, if you haven't been taking him on yourself I would encourage you to do so, though as nymusicdaily says he may not be worth engaging. See my reply to him.
All due respect to Steve, he isn’t the best debater. But the sheer weight of evidence is on his side. So he would win. Is it worth it? Probably not. I hate to advocate guns and violence but they’ve always worked for me. RIP HST.
at the risk of outing myself as a chaos agent, ron unz is either controlled op or just plain crazy and has a long track record to back that up. not worth engaging, imo.
other than igor, joel smalley (imagine you are already a subscriber) is the man on excess mortality - and somehow manages to retain a sense of humor https://metatron.substack.com
I appreciate your cumulative all cause mortality graph but it doesn't jive well with my smooth brain, I like things simpler. What do you think of a simple 6 year quarterly dot plot:
The level of the countries obese people would have remained relatively constant over the last ten years as an example. So if excess deaths happened in the last 3 years you have to look at something other than the basic fact that they are obese to explain the excess . 2020 could be explained by COVID, but what about 2021 and 2022. The vaccine should have reduced the excess if COVID was the cause, so what happened in 2021 and 2022 that was different? The vaccine itself. In fact in England 2022 had far more excess deaths than in 2020.
Well, at least half of covid deaths were actually iatrogenocide, so there's that. And if excess deaths are still way up despite hardly anyone dying from covid in the second half of 2022? Unz also seems to ignore the admission from CDC/Phizer et al the myo and pericarditis is an issue. Unz readers too are not going to accept any opinion from Mr Unz other than the vaccines are benign, so I expect him to be categorically blind in that regard.
That said, I'm not sure Kirsch is going to be the best debater.
Thank you, Amy. These are two bright guys, both unconventional, willing to shine light in dark corners. Exactly what we need. We should not be supporting any specific narrative, just the fact that the truth should have a chance to come out.
Once you start playing their game you're done. You cannot win this argument if you're dumb enough to believe in such things as a specific killer virus that is responsible for a specific disease. Their "proof" is the result of computer simulations. If you accept that they will run rings around you. They will not permit any questioning of their sacred theories.
Imagine if Dr.s. Sam and Mark Bailey's incisive proposal to settle the virus debate was ever implemented. Then I believe it would become quite apparent that people would finally realize the Emperor Has No Clothes. https://drsambailey.com/resources/settling-the-virus-debate/
Why debate anyone....Pfizer tried to suppress data for 75 years and now has had to release it with scathing data....over 1300 side effects listed....case closed......
While I am open to Unz's hypothesis about obesity+COVID and think there may be some truth to it, I also see a few "holes" in it, and it certainly doesn't disprove that the mRNA vaccines are killing people. For one thing, Unz has limited his analysis to "working-age mortality", and the evidence suggests that this would miss most vaccine deaths. Why? Because contrary to popular belief, most evidence suggests that the majority of the people killed by the vaccine are actually OLDER people.
First of all, the excess vaccine deaths in the Pfizer and Moderna "gold standard" randomized clinical trials (the highest quality evidence that exists, period) were confined to the OLDER age groups. The younger age groups had no excess deaths in the trials (of course they exist, just much more rare than in older). In the older age groups, the two clinical trials combined had a total of 21 deaths in the vaccine groups versus 16 deaths in the placebo groups.
Among the older age group (>65) in the Moderna clinical trial, there were 9 deaths in the vaccine group versus 6 deaths in the placebo group. Small numbers, but that's a 50% increase in deaths. https://www.nejm.org/doi/suppl/10.1056/NEJMoa2113017/suppl_file/nejmoa2113017_appendix.pdf - see page 53, Table S19
Among the older age group (>55) in the Pfizer clinical trial, there were 12 deaths in the vaccine group versus 10 deaths in the placebo group. Consistent trend but 20% increase here- if they divided at age 65 like Moderna maybe the increase would be larger, who knows. https://www.fda.gov/media/152256/download - see page 57, BOTTOM of Table 25
Finally, in VAERS, over 70% of unexpected post-vaccine deaths with known ages were in people aged >65 (and about 90% with known ages were in people over age 50). https://openvaers.com/covid-data/mortality
Anecdotally, all 3 people I know who died unexpectedly a few months after vaccination were in the 60-80 age range, and a fourth in his early 80s (healthy) almost died of a sudden cardiovascular event. NONE of them were obese or even overweight, and only one had had COVID (mild case pre-vax).
Hi Amy, this is the first I've heard of you. I came over from the link you posted on Steve Kirsch's substack. I've just read the comments here and I'm so sorry to learn of the predicament your family is in.
You ask "Does anyone else want to take on this guy?" Sorry, I'm not clear whether you yourself have been trying to take him on. I haven't seen you over on his site at https://www.unz.com/, but that may be because you're there under a pseudonym. Also, there are so many commenters there that I do not take the time to pay much attention to everyone. Anyway, if you haven't been taking him on yourself I would encourage you to do so, though as nymusicdaily says he may not be worth engaging. See my reply to him.
so you can't get there and he can't get here? that is pathologically evil.
have been reading that the thai mandate is to scare off the chinese and may end when the new year celebration is over.
thinking metaphorically here (although pricetag could be prohibitive): a whale turns into a dolphin turns into a seal on the beach and...
go ahead and delete this if needs be
All due respect to Steve, he isn’t the best debater. But the sheer weight of evidence is on his side. So he would win. Is it worth it? Probably not. I hate to advocate guns and violence but they’ve always worked for me. RIP HST.
at the risk of outing myself as a chaos agent, ron unz is either controlled op or just plain crazy and has a long track record to back that up. not worth engaging, imo.
other than igor, joel smalley (imagine you are already a subscriber) is the man on excess mortality - and somehow manages to retain a sense of humor https://metatron.substack.com
I appreciate your cumulative all cause mortality graph but it doesn't jive well with my smooth brain, I like things simpler. What do you think of a simple 6 year quarterly dot plot:
https://spud1984.substack.com/p/looking-for-excess-deaths-among-young
I think humans are great at pattern recognition, and prefer raw data over massaged.
The level of the countries obese people would have remained relatively constant over the last ten years as an example. So if excess deaths happened in the last 3 years you have to look at something other than the basic fact that they are obese to explain the excess . 2020 could be explained by COVID, but what about 2021 and 2022. The vaccine should have reduced the excess if COVID was the cause, so what happened in 2021 and 2022 that was different? The vaccine itself. In fact in England 2022 had far more excess deaths than in 2020.
Well, at least half of covid deaths were actually iatrogenocide, so there's that. And if excess deaths are still way up despite hardly anyone dying from covid in the second half of 2022? Unz also seems to ignore the admission from CDC/Phizer et al the myo and pericarditis is an issue. Unz readers too are not going to accept any opinion from Mr Unz other than the vaccines are benign, so I expect him to be categorically blind in that regard.
That said, I'm not sure Kirsch is going to be the best debater.
Thank you, Amy. These are two bright guys, both unconventional, willing to shine light in dark corners. Exactly what we need. We should not be supporting any specific narrative, just the fact that the truth should have a chance to come out.
Once you start playing their game you're done. You cannot win this argument if you're dumb enough to believe in such things as a specific killer virus that is responsible for a specific disease. Their "proof" is the result of computer simulations. If you accept that they will run rings around you. They will not permit any questioning of their sacred theories.
Imagine if Dr.s. Sam and Mark Bailey's incisive proposal to settle the virus debate was ever implemented. Then I believe it would become quite apparent that people would finally realize the Emperor Has No Clothes. https://drsambailey.com/resources/settling-the-virus-debate/
Why debate anyone....Pfizer tried to suppress data for 75 years and now has had to release it with scathing data....over 1300 side effects listed....case closed......
Also, this is why they are not letting up.....they don't have to....we are in BIG trouble..... https://gettr.com/post/p24n3h18d2c